Who would have ever thought that there’s a supe more dangerous than Homelander? That’s exactly what we got in The Boys season four, thanks to the arrival of Sister Sage. (Let’s just drop the “Sister” and call her Sage, okay?) The smartest person in the universe turned America’s government system and ongoing supe war into her own personal game of chess, using everyone around her as pawns to craft pure chaos.
Thanks to her sheer genius and others’ lack of emotional intelligence and self-control, supes are running the US and Homelander is their leader. Sage doesn’t care about societal conventions nor does she have powers that can protect her if she falters. Therefore, every move she makes is intentional, calculating, and downright diabolical. We caught up with The Boys actress Susan Heyward to talk about Sage’s psyche, fandom love, and the catharsis and life lessons from playing a radical character.
Nerdist: What was your favorite Sage moment in this season and why?
Susan Heyward: Oh, gosh, there’s so many! I have to say I loved Sage’s setup for Firecracker because I think it speaks to her nature. She met Firecracker and immediately got the “old boy racist” vibes from her. And Sage tucked that information away and waited for a moment when she knew that she could create a situation where Firecracker would go the direction that Sage wanted her to for her own benefit. The way Sage kind of stepped back and was like, ”I’m going to let you be who you are” and let her get her ass beat by somebody who has the power to do it… that was delicious to me.
It was fantastic. I’m glad you brought up a big part of Sage’s personality which is withholding information and using people’s worst natures against them. We get a chance to see her surface level motivations for wanting to work with Homelander. She doesn’t really think humanity is worth saving, which I do get. Do you think Sage has other ulterior motives against Homelander or is she just a Machiavellian agent of chaos who only wants to see the world burn?
Heyward: It is hard to choose, honestly, because I think she is processing so much information and so many possibilities all the time. I have to say it’s a little bit of both. I think she’s a survivor. The world has not necessarily been a kind place to her. So she’s always thinking about her own survival. Always thinking about how she can do what’s best for her. And I think she needs something to make her excited, something to give her a reason to live. She has the opportunity to create chaos and a universe that was unlikely. I think it gives her a thrill to help her feel alive.
It’s so interesting she’s doing all of this and purposely staying behind the scenes. To me, that makes her more threatening than anyone else on the show. Sage isn’t concerned with being loved nor adored by anyone and she’s certainly no one’s savior. As a Black woman, did you find any catharsis in being able to portray a woman who’s really unrestrained and rather radical?
Heyward: Absolutely. I feel like there’s so much pressure in our culture as a woman, especially as a Black woman, to be liked, to be nice, to see how we can be of use and of service to everyone we meet. And I found it really liberating to play a character whose concerns were living life on her own terms… I liked seeing that play out with her. It is liberating and I feel like we are seeing [something similar] play out with women in real life. Women are not so concerned with being liked and they aren’t making that the focus of their forward phase.
I absolutely love it! So, the season four finale sets Sage up to continue to play a big role in season five as Homelander’s advisor. What are some of your hopes and dreams for Sage’s storyline as we move forward?
Heyward: Oh, there’s so many things I’m pitching ideas for! I would say world domination is clearly one. [laughs] I’m also interested in seeing some of her personal life. We’ve got glimpses of her relationship with A-Train before they ended up on the Seven together. I’m interested in that. I’m also interested in getting more about her family, whom we don’t see her ever talk to. I think one of the biggest lessons Sage has taught me is how important it is to stay connected to your community. We find her in an isolated moment surrounded by her books, but not people… that’s affecting who she is… So I’d love to see her either finding community or dealing with the community that she’s lost in season five.
There’s definitely a possibility for that. A-Train was definitely disconnected from his community and his Blackness in many ways, and he’s found his way back. There’s hope for Sage to do that… somewhere in the mix of her world domination!
Heyward: We could totally get those two working together.
I’d like to see that. When it comes to Sage’s persona, I assume a lot of it came from what was written on page. But what other sources and characters did you draw from to build her characterization?
Heyward: That’s such a good question. I tried to watch a lot of chess matches because there’s this idea, I think especially in the media, that if you’re smart, you wear glasses and you don’t have a lot of confidence. That’s a media shorthand for what it means to be smart. And I wanted to watch people who were in the act of thinking, strategizing, and holding different possibilities in their mind. And there was such focus on the task at hand rather than the outside appearance or presenting or showing how much they’re working.
I found a lot of power in stillness, which is not me. I’m a naturally gregarious person. I thought it really fun to bring that stillness to Sage, especially in a world where everyone is almost cartoonish… I wanted to bring a certain mystery and stillness to her. And in talks with [showrunner] Eric Kripke, he said he saw Sage as a sphinxlike character. So I wanted to bring that sense of reserve to her.
That is a cool way to build a character. I enjoyed her juxtaposition to everyone else because, like you said, they can be so bombastic. Sage feels incredibly grounded, even down to her superpower of beyond genius intelligence. That seems like it could be tangible, minus the lobotomizing part.
Heyward: [laughs] Yes. And I feel like not giving her those types of physical powers away affects her. She cannot take as many risks. So there’s this line that she’s always dancing, certainly with Homelander, Firecracker, and with anyone who has these huge physical powers. If she moves too fast in the wrong way, those laser eyes are going to catch her. So there’s a juxtaposition of her intelligence strength with her physical vulnerability that made for nice tension.
It certainly puts her in a precarious place but she’s making it work! Now that the season is over and you’ve seen the fandom love for Sage, what does it feel like to be a part of something so bonkers yet beloved? And how has portraying Sage changed you as a person?
Heyward: I’m deeply grateful and excited. I was a fan of the show from season one, and I personally was hoping for someone like Sage. So to be in a position to actually be that person and have the creative input, I feel very, very grateful and excited for what’s to come. It’s surreal, I have to say. There’s a bit of distance between who I am and the character.
So I feel like I’m on the sidelines watching the audience have this relationship with Sage that has only a little bit to do with me… I love seeing Black women see themselves. I think I saw one post on Instagram that was like, apparently people say Sage is my doppelganger. And then she put a picture of herself next to some stills of Sage and I was like, “Oh my gosh, she does look like me!” Long lost cousin, where you at?! What’s up?! [everyone laughs]
Sage has helped me deal with my own need to be liked and confront my own habits of maybe people-pleasing or leaning into cuteness or niceness in order to survive this crazy world and get what I need. I’m letting my voice drop a little lower and have some bass when normally I would use a higher pitch. There are all of these unconscious ways that we make ourselves smaller or we make ourselves palatable for people. I’ve become far more aware of the ways I used to lean into that and I get to choose to do something else. And that’s thanks to Sage.
I feel you on that, deeply. Sage’s unapologetic boldness is inspiring. I know you say you are mostly not like Sage, so which The Boys character are you like?
Heyward: I think I’m most like Hughie.
Really?! That’s interesting.
Heyward: Yeah, there’s something so beautiful about Hughie’s appeal to humanity. He does not want to become a monster in order to fight the monsters. He looks up to Butcher and also has this deep hope that Butcher doesn’t become one of the monsters. He’s fighting them and always appealing to mercy or inclusion or grace for people. Hughie is also struggling with the monster in himself, the ways he has internalized sexism, the way he deals with Starlight, the way he wants to be a good guy, but he’s always confronting the ways in which he’s not that great. I feel like that’s what it is to be human, to try to hold onto your humanity, but also be really interested in the ways you’re falling short of who you want to be. And always keep trying to be better.
I love that about him. And I also love that Sage got to be a full force villain, too. It feels like a win for us, you know?
Heyward: Yes! Thank you so much for your questions, for being excited, and for watching. It’s truly the reason I do what I do, I want to create feelings like that.
