Little Simz Tells Michaela Coel Why Silence Was Not an Option

After a period of loss, doubt, and disillusionment, British rapper Little Simz is doing what she does best—turning it into music. Lotus, her sixth album, is both a reckoning with the industry’s toll and a release from its grip. To break it all down, the North London native, born Simbiatu “Simbi” Ajikawo, got on a Zoom with I May Destroy You creator Michaela Coel, a fellow Brit who understands firsthand the alchemy between poetry and pain.

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TUESDAY 11:30 AM MARCH 11, 2025  LONDON

MICHAELA COEL: Simbi.

LITTLE SIMZ: Yo, dog.

COEL: What are you saying?

SIMZ: I’m alright. Well, actually I’ve been better.

COEL: What happened?

SIMZ: I hurt my wrist shooting a video.

COEL: Oh no. What, was you holding the camera?

SIMZ: No. I wish it was more exciting. I was getting helped onto a platform, and then they kind of snapped my shit back. I should have used my power to lift myself up, but I didn’t.

COEL: Well, the album is sick. I got to say, comparing this to No Thank You, it’s like night and day. I feel like with No Thank You you’re calling out systemic pressures in the music industry; the music is very cinematic; it’s reflecting with this very wide-angle lens on everything. But this one is very personal and it’s very direct. You’re zeroing in on a very deeply personal portrayal, and you’re letting us feel all of the emotional consequences of that. It’s very exciting for us to see you dig into this personal pain. Tell me if I’m wrong, but you parted ways with your management team, your label?

SIMZ: Yeah, there’s been a transition in teams. It’s more management.

COEL: So can you walk me through what finally pushed you to take the leap and how you’re balancing this freedom unanchored with the inevitable challenges of that?

SIMZ: I don’t know if this is true for everyone, but at least for me, when I started in this industry, I was very trusting. I didn’t know much of the music business. That led me into a handful of situations that didn’t serve me as they should have done. But it’s only now I’m realizing that just because there’s always been one way of doing things, it doesn’t have to be my way. It’s taken me six albums to understand I can do things in a way that feels truthful to me in all areas of my work, and still feels like just Simbi. It’s taken me a minute to get my head around that. I hope that answers your question.

COEL: You mentioned a handful of experiences. You don’t have to go into it if you don’t want to.

SIMZ: It’s definitely been a long the managerial area. Even when I was coming up, I came up with a rap group, and it’s like we was all meant to be the Young Money of England. But it don’t always work. Not everyone’s calling is yours. When you want something so bad, you want it for the next person as well, and all the people around you, but it might not be their path. So a lot of letting go, and sometimes it’s bitter and sometimes it’s not.

COEL: Some of what you said reminds me of a lyric in one of the songs: “Making me feel like a guest, but I paid for the jet.” There’s a lot in that. And “Thief ” in particular is like a letter to someone who’s betrayed you. How much of this album served as a personal release, and how do you decide what to make public versus what to keep private?

SIMZ: Good question. When I first wrote that song, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to put it on the album because I knew I’m going to have to talk about it and explain who it’s about. But for me to leave all my situations or whatever, it requires a certain type of bravery. And it’s all from my lens, isn’t it? Some people won’t even deep it that much, and just think “Thief ” is a song that has a lot of energy. And even to start my album like that, I’m setting the tone that I’m about to talk about some stuff and it’s uncomfortable for me.

COEL: For those who won’t deep it, can you take us deeper?

SIMZ: I guess I wrote that song—there’s the literal sense where stuff was taken, but then I did feel like I was robbed of my strength, my voice, my soul. And I didn’t know it was happening at the time.

COEL: Gosh.

SIMZ: Which was even more fucked up. One thing about this album as well—sometimes even when I listen to it, I think, “Damn, I wish I let my family in more.” And I wish I let people close to me know what was going on. I think you give people more value the more you let them in and just let them be there for you. I wish I would’ve given the closest people around me the opportunity to do that, and not feel like I’ve got to put on a brave face.

COEL: Do you think you’re the kind of person that doesn’t like needing people?

SIMZ: Yeah.

COEL: What I’ve learned is your friends and loved ones feel valued when there are circumstances where you need them.

SIMZ: Yeah, they can show up.

COEL: I’ll say that you have changed. You do seem stronger than when we first met, which was I think 2015.

SIMZ: Yeah. It’s pushing 10 years.

COEL: We’ve got the same PR, but they didn’t know that we knew each other. [Laughs]

SIMZ: Really?

COEL: They said, “Would you like to interview Little Simz about her album? I think you met her at the GQ Awards last year in New York.” I said, “Excuse me madam, I’ve known this bitch 10 years. Yes, I’ll do it.” You seem stronger and more resolved, and firmly standing in who you are.

SIMZ: I’m really grateful to hear you say that, because when you’re in it sometimes, you don’t know. I feel it as well. Even though you’re always growing and whatnot, I just feel way more comfortable in my skin, you know?

COEL: Yeah. How does what you learned, and the unfortunate experiences that you’ve had regarding abuse within this industry—financial, emotional—how does it shape how you choose your collaborators going forward?

SIMZ: Damn, big question. I think if anything, it’s made me more open to working with different types of people. When you close yourself off and you’re in a cocoon, that’s when the fucked shit happens. It made me more excited to be able to share my gift. There’s so many talented people on the earth.

COEL: Yeah.

SIMZ: Not that I forgot that, but I maybe didn’t want to see it. If anything, it’s given me a newfound excitement, because what I found is by trying new things, it unlocked something in me that I didn’t know existed. It’s given me a newfound freedom to be a bit more experimental in my work. I felt like a child again. Again, going into situations, not one man up.

COEL: What does not one man up mean?

SIMZ: Just blindly go and place it by myself. Just no protection, you know what I mean? Just being a bit more vigilant in how I move.

COEL: Okay. You mentioned family and how you wish you’d let them in a little bit more. Can I ask you, in what ways do they ground you and in what ways do they challenge you?

SIMZ: They definitely remind me of why family is so important in all the ways. I don’t know whether it’s my nieces or my nephews—just being heavily present in their lives, watching them grow up, how they view me, how they inspire me. How they remind me sometimes it’s not that serious. And my mum, just her being the pillar, the rock, the head of the family, how she keeps everyone together and does her best to make us see, “No, we really are a unit.” It’s hard because I feel like in Black culture, or African culture, sometimes you’re taught that you don’t let out business and don’t talk about the family matters, but actually, they inspire me so much that I want to talk about them more. That’s why, when I think about what I’ve been through, I just wish I had opened up my world a bit more.

COEL: Were you scared that they’d be disappointed?

SIMZ: Yeah, and just fear of judgment. Like, “We taught you better.” It’s all in my head, but I didn’t want them to think less of me in a way, which they’re never going to.

COEL: I totally get it. It becomes like a monster in your head. The more you leave it, the more it grows. You think they’re going to be so disappointed, they’re going to cry, you’re going to ruin their sense of reality.

SIMZ: And they might really pull up and do some silly shit. [Laughs] These are not rational people sometimes.

COEL: Well, it sounds like what happened was really bad.

SIMZ: Yeah. I’m going to try to find the silver lining.

COEL: It’s obviously inspired this album. There’s plenty of blessings to be found from pain, but I’m also just saying it sounds like it was really fucked up.

SIMZ: It was, Michaela, I’ll be real. Shit really almost gave me a serious breakdown. I’ve never not believed in myself or my ability to write, even when I’ve had blocks. I know it’s a block. It doesn’t mean I’ve lost my whole shit. This time around, I was seriously considering that maybe it’s time to just—I’ve had a good run, you know? I can maybe dip into other things, because I’m not feeling it and I don’t know how I’m going to get it back. Even going in to work with who I worked with, I had to show them, “Don’t have any expectations. This music might be extremely bad. I’m just letting you know from the jump.” But they were all so super.

COEL: I think the song is called “Lonely,” where you’re talking about this block. And so, I was going to ask you, how do you keep it alive?

SIMZ: Just remembering that I’ve actually been doing this for many, many years. I can tap back into it, providing I have the right structure or the right team or the right headspace. I was totally sober, no drink, whilst I was making this album. And just not being afraid to address things. I’m not the only person that feels like they’ve been robbed. I’m not the only person that has been lonely.

COEL: Yeah. The album is so personal that it becomes universal. I relate to all of it. It takes me back to, “Oh yeah, that’s when I got robbed. Oh yeah, that’s when I was going to retire and try to become a painter because I haven’t got shit left.” [Laughs] It’s the 360 on the human soul, and some of it’s so British. I feel like I’m getting Blur, I’m getting the Smiths at times. I’m really getting a Black British female. So obviously I am really, really connected to the whole kind of sculpture of the album; it’s sick. Okay, there’s a song—can’t remember which one it is—where you are talking about feeling judged for not speaking on certain world issues the way that people expect you to. How do you balance the pressure to be a spokesperson on social topics with this desire to process your own personal struggles?

SIMZ: I’m not sure if I balance it very well, to be honest. I definitely feel the pressures of having to, especially because of the kind of artist I am. I don’t think all artists feel this, because they don’t make a particular type of music. I feel like sometimes people are just on me.

COEL: Really?

SIMZ: Yeah, and I don’t always know what to say. Then I start to go inwards. I think, “Shit, am I a bad person?” I don’t want to have to question myself like that, but in the same breath, I need time to figure out how I feel about something.

COEL: Do you think that’s also tied to the stress of social media? Are people coming up to you on the street?

SIMZ: No.

COEL: It’s on the phone, isn’t it?

SIMZ: Mhmm. Never in person.

COEL: I’m not really on the ground like that, but basically I think that everyone lives in a different reality. I can often tell when an artist or an actor has comments switched on or DMs open.

SIMZ: Really?

COEL: Because they’re very stressed. They’re receiving a lot of everything. You can tell the difference. I can tell you have—maybe your DMs open; you can see the back door.

SIMZ: Yeah.

COEL: [Laughs] Funny one. There’s a type of way that people are on Instagram that doesn’t reflect themselves in real life. I remember one time—this is when Chewing Gum came out—I was all up on Instagram, comments open because I was so innocent and didn’t know that people could say bad things. These women started writing, “Ew, I can’t bear to look at it. Ew, is that a man? What is it?” I was like, “Oh my god, this is so hurtful!” And I went on one of their pages and I started looking at her pictures and she looked like a normal girl. So I DMed her and I said, “Hey, I just want you to know that I saw your comment.” And she said, “Oh my god, I can’t believe I did that! I’m a feminist! I’m so sorry.”

SIMZ: No way.

COEL: Humans are so weird, and I think people’s mental health will be in better shape if we understand that our internet behavior is kind of contorted and twisted and shouldn’t be digested fully.

SIMZ: No, that’s bare true. Sometimes I’m like, “Do I want to give this more energy?” But it’s either I go and make a song, or start blasting someone. People can be really mean. And I’m also of the school of “chat shit, get banged.”

COEL: [Laughs] Yeah. Put it in a song. Where are you finding joy and fulfillment right now, both inside and outside of music?

SIMZ: In my close relationships. My lot are sick, man.

COEL: I know that because you have game nights at your house, which are always so vibey, and I definitely get the sense that your friends are your chosen family. It’s really lovely to dip in and be a part of your community. No hype to it. Just feet on the ground, chill.

SIMZ: I need it as well.

COEL: Absolutely. My sense of identity is affirmed in other people, so I need to keep certain people around me. Some people are new, some people I’ve known since secondary school, but they keep reaffirming this core part of who I am. Um, there’s a sense in the new songs that you’ve obviously learned about contracts, trust, and so on. If you could speak directly to a 16-year-old coming up in the same environment, what would you want them to know?

SIMZ: I would encourage any young artist to try and be brave. That’s probably really shit advice. But when I was coming up, I just kept putting music out. If you’re an artist, you just keep doing it. You keep showing up regardless of whatever. Just keep writing, but learn about the back end as well.

COEL: Snakes in the circle.

SIMZ: Yeah, dog. And that’s probably a lot to try and fathom at 16 years old, but—

COEL: And you might sometimes have to take an L. People will rob you in the night. But I always think karma is a bitch, man.

SIMZ: It really is.

COEL: Our enemies will crumble.

SIMZ: But that’s the thing though, Michaela, because I even say it in a song on the album: “God also loves my enemies.”

COEL: Alright Simz, fucking hell. [Laughs]

SIMZ: [Laughs] Obviously they’re just not meant to be in your life, innit? And sometimes you get shown the hard way. But anyway, I’m very glad you like the album.

COEL: I love it. When is it out?

SIMZ: May 9.

COEL: Let’s go. Can’t wait.

SIMZ: Love, Michaela. Thank you so much. We’ll chat.

COEL: Yeah, absolutely. Bye.

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Hair: Chantelle Fuller.

Makeup: Nibras using Charlotte Tilbury.

Tailor: Kate Walker.

Photography Assistant: Toby Marshall.

Fashion Assistants: Annie Tshichimbi and Emmanouela Megkistou.

Production Management: Morgan Shepherd.

Location: SMASH-IT!